SuperManager: Characteristics of Top Leaders
Christine Lawrence
You’re listening to Super Manager, the podcast for people who manage people and business. With ideas, trends and expert interviews to help you be a super manager.
Samantha Naes
Who’s your super manager? Who’s that leader from your past or present that has really affected you, positively or negatively.
Art Snarzyk
When I pose that question to groups I often find it’s usually somebody who believed in them before they believed in themselves. There’s always this kind of this feeling of gratitude where usually those are the people that people look up to and are grateful for and really soak things up from like a sponge.
Samantha Naes
It’s a good characteristic,
Samantha Naes
All right, so this week we’re gonna be talking about the characteristics of top leaders, and I have my leadership team with me.
Teresa Phelps
I’m Teresa Phelps from Rosenbloom Goldenhersh. I am a labor and employment attorney and I, also am the HR manager at my firm,
Joel Emery
Joel Emery, with Ignite Strategies I serve as a sales systems architect for small and mid sized businesses.
Art Snarzyk
My name’s Art Snarzyk. I’m a consultant with Innerview Advisors, and we help businesses attract, hire, and manage ideal people,
Samantha Naes
and I’m Samantha Naes with CN Video. We do corporate video production on-boarding, training, PR and social video.
Art Snarzyk
I find it’s oftentimes the leader who one of their main focus is on making the environment one in which the employees and team can thrive. when their focus is on having an environment in which people can do their best work than oftentimes that’s the person who is recognized as being an excellent leader.
Samantha Naes
It’s interesting how means different things to different people. I actually went to some leadership training and it was horse therapy. The one thing that I got out of this weekend of horse therapy was that one very necessary leadership Skill is confidence. They had horses and they’re just out grazing and they’d put together a path out of rope and they said, Okay, get the horse to walk through the path with you. And the horse is grazing, and I walk up to him and I’m like, Okay, and I’m kind of petting him and I’m like, Hey, we’re gonna do this. I’m trying to ask him, Will you come do this with me? And so I said, Well, he’s eating right now. Yes, and you need to have him walk through the path and I’m like. Yeah, but I feel bad. He’s eating. I don’t really want to. And I’m like, you want to let me know when you’re done eating and I’ll walk you through? And there like No, you need to get him to walk through. So finally, somebody came out and help me, and they walked up to the horse and they just very gently petted the horse and said, OK, we’re going. And they started to walk through the path and the horse walked with him. Oh, OK, so then I walked up to another horse. I’m like, 0h 0h sorry. Okay, you’re You’re okay. Would you? And then I’m like, Okay. No, I’m gonna try it. And I just said OK, very calmly, very gently. Okay, Come on, let’s go. And I started to walk and the horse came with me. To me, that was a great lesson in leadership
Joel Emery
I have a question about that, So I agree completely. The confidence is a key element. But what I always find myself wondering is, where is the line between confidence and arrogance? Because when it shifts over the arrogance, then you’re undermining leadership and undermining your team frequently in some capacity. So where is the line between confidence, which helps drive your team foreign and arrogance, which frequently causes problems?
Teresa Phelps
And I think you can kind of find that line by the way that you’re interacting with your team. So you’re portraying confidence as the leader, but you’re involving them in that as well. You’re not just saying this is how we’re going to do it, because I said so. Let’s try this. And then it’s the approach that you take when you’re dealing with your people, and they’re gonna come alongside and do that as well. And I think that because it feels like you’re working as a team while you’re still leading, your people are gonna follow along and they’re not gonna feel that That’s arrogance as opposed to confidence.
Samantha Naes
Well, and listening to. We do occasionally internships here, and I found that the interns love when I say Okay, here’s what we’re trying to do. What do you guys think about this? What thoughts do you have? And for me, it’s a no brainer because these are young adults just coming out of college that have fresh ideas, different perspectives. So it’s really a good way for us to get some good ideas. I think that’s all a part of leadership, not just making the decisions, but listening to everybody and gathering information and knowing what you’re talking about.
Art Snarzyk
It really depends on the individual. if you care about what you want the environment to be, and you want to allow those people to thrive and come up with their ideas and you’ll do that. But I think that some leaders air intimidated by that, maybe especially younger leaders, right new to the position, you know they need to justify their position. The thing I keep hearing kind of the theme that we’re not saying this EQ, which I think is emotional intelligence. I I feel that’s the game changer. So the difference between that confidence and arrogance is Do I understand what I’m doing to people when I show up and that’s emotional intelligence. If you’re unaware of those things, I think it makes you less likely to be a great confident leader and is going to make you seem more arrogant.
Samantha Naes
I also read somewhere that the most successful leaders are willing to apologize, but I’ve also seen some leaders who feel that it makes them appear like stronger role models if they don’t.
Teresa Phelps
I probably agree with the first premise. I think that it’s an eager you really do need to be willing to apologize. And it’s not so much an admission of you failed or your fault or whatnot. It’s just recognizing we’re all human and we’re all working in this together. And, you know, I may have done things that weren’t appropriate for the situation or handled it a different way. Now that you’ve brought it to my attention, I’m aware of that. And I’m gonna be more careful in the future and make sure that I take these things into consideration. I think it just makes you feel real to people. You don’t want a leader that feels like they’re on a podium that you can’t touch and you can’t talk to. When you’re a real person,
Samantha Naes
right
Teresa Phelps
Like that’s I think, what makes a really good leader because you want to be the person that you would follow, right? You’re not gonna want to follow somebody that is this icon statue somewhere up here that doesn’t make mistakes and doesn’t have to apologize. It doesn’t act real with people
Art Snarzyk
sure
Samantha Naes
I think oftentimes to you get what you give. So if you’re disrespectful to other people, they’re not gonna be as respectful of you. And it’s hard to lead when you’re not respected.
Teresa Phelps
Absolutely.
Art Snarzyk
Lead. It’s such a It’s a verb, right? I mean, it’s something we do, And I think sometimes leadership doesn’t have to be so verby. where it’s it’s something that we are right, that we’re going to act in a way an upright leader acts and people will follow. But I think that some people take it too far and they say, I’m going to be a leader and I’m going in to lead this team today and I have to get the team involved or else you won’t get by it.
Samantha Naes
I put together a little booklet on lunch and learns, and I do a little intro to my background, and I used to have at one time really great leadership skills without even trying. And the reason was because I was so passionate about what I was doing. I just really enjoyed and got into what I was doing, so other people were like oooh I want to be a part of that as well. And so they’d join in and without even trying, I was a great leader… And then they made me a manager, and it all went to hell [laughing]
Teresa Phelps
Part of that could be an expectation you put on yourself like feeling the pressure of being the designated
Samantha Naes
Responsible.
Teresa Phelps
Yes, like all of a sudden, Oh, I’m I’m the manager that does something to us emotionally and mentally, and we sometimes have a hard time living up to what our expectations are.
Samantha Naes
Well, and you’re trying to figure out how to be responsible for other people and for other people’s performance. And, yeah, it can get pretty tricky.
Joel Emery
One observation have about leadership. I’ve observed this with men. I have not necessarily observed it with women. And that is somewhere around the age of 40, give or take three years, men either figure out that they’re not the smartest person in the room and that they need to have other people around them who know more and are more skilled and embrace that and allow them to achieve and excel past them or they don’t figure it out. And the ones who do figure that out are the ones who they’re able to build teams that work well together, that scale that continue to succeed and have loyalty and engagement. And the ones that don’t figure it out, they kind of flat line. But I definitely noticed that again with men at about the age 40 give or take three years for that kicks in.
Art Snarzyk
Interesting observation.
Joel Emery
I don’t have any Yeah. I wish I actually data to back it. It was just anecdotal observation, but I think it’s it holds true. I can’t think of a single example other.
Art Snarzyk
We either double down or we decide to change.
Samantha Naes
So who are your favorite leaders? Do any of you have someone that changed your life, a manager or supervisor that you had? That
Art Snarzyk
Oh I have a few, And I noticed the theme is really What I hear from others is it’s the people that saw something in me that I didn’t see, You know, a mentor who said, You’re just good and you don’t know it yet.
Samantha Naes
So that’s why your definition of great leadership is someone who. I think maybe people who have made an impression of us in the past, maybe that’s where we get our definition of what a good leader is.
Art Snarzyk
Sure, yeah. If I felt led. Well, then that’s my new definition of a leader, right? I felt inspired to follow.
Joel Emery
Question there. Now, is it the same as saying, inspiring other people to act or inspiring other people to follow? Because perhaps quibbling and semantic somewhere in there. But you know,
Samantha Naes
No there’s a difference.
Art Snarzyk
I do see a difference. Yeah, um, it might depend on the organization. Some are very highly structured and they want you to follow. But I think very creative place like Sam’s. I think I’d want them to think I’d want to inspire them to think and do and create,
Samantha Naes
as long as they’re thinking the same thing I am.
Art Snarzyk
The goal is just to get them. They have to come up with the idea to think your way. I think is always the key. How do I get this employee to come around to my way of thinking in a way that they’re gonna like?
Samantha Naes
I was I was just joking.
Art Snarzyk
But there I think there is truth in it.
Samantha Naes
Yeah,
Art Snarzyk
Because we’re trying to get our ideas through to somebody else who has different ideas for their life.
Samantha Naes
See. I think the opposite I think to me when we’re talking about what is great leadership, and I’m kind of tying it back to who I consider to be good leaders. When I was an employee working my way up the ladder, it was people who would listen. It was somebody that would explain to me what needed to be done. Listen to what I had to say and then step back and let me do what I needed to do. And to me, that was a great leader. If you’re willing to tell me what I need to do, not how to do it and then step back and just be there to get me what I need in order to accomplish my goal. To me, you were a great leader.
Joel Emery
I have a client who a few years ago we wanted to test some of the core values that wanted to bring to their company, and those included respect, trust, knowing that they could rely on their managers and co workers. Some things along those lines
Samantha Naes
Very important values
Joel Emery
Right. So we did a survey of the employees and we asked them, Do you trust your manager? Do you feel like your manager trusts you? Do you trust your colleagues? Do you feel like your colleagues trust you? A set of questions along these lines. Same thing with respect. Do you respect your manager? Do you feel like your manager respects you? And it was interesting because the responses were confidential. They were done through me. They never actually got to the ownership of the company. They put a few risky things on the lining to test that could have been painful if the response came back wrong or not the way they wanted. But it all came back great. But as part of it again, we presented the data to the entire team. This is what everybody has to say about this in the company.
Samantha Naes
How bad was it?
Joel Emery
It was solid. It was
Samantha Naes
Oh really?
Joel Emery
Yeah, absolutely. It came back really well, and it was genuine. I mean, there were outliers. There were a couple of severe negatives. And you’re gonna have that
Teresa Phelps
Sure
Joel Emery
I mean this was the team of several dozen people. There were maybe two negatives. That was pretty fantastic.
Samantha Naes
Yeah,
Joel Emery
but otherwise it was all on scale of 4 and 5s positive responses. But I really admired that leadership of, Okay, we have these core values that are important to us. We want to instill it into the company. We want to make sure we’re effectively doing that. So let’s take a look at this and let’s put this out here. Let’s put ourselves on the line and let’s see how it’s actually working.
Samantha Naes
I might be mistaken, but Art, all of the things that we’re talking about, are kind of part of this emotional intelligence that you were talking about, right? I mean, how respected you are, how respectful you are of other people building trust. All of that really comes from emotional intelligence, doesn’t it? So is that to say that the better the leader, the higher the emotional intelligence? A direct correlation, is that getting down to what’s key?
Art Snarzyk
I hate to answer so quickly, but that’s what we’re finding. So there’s soft skills that we developed like leadership and management. And those are different. leadership is getting results through people and management is managing the resources, time management and understanding other, so they’re soft skills that were developing through our lives. But it’s really EQ is the game changer. and EQ always starts with self awareness. Are you aware of what you’re feeling and what you’re going through right now? And is it gonna leave you with lasting hangover throughout the day? That kind of messes with the rest of your relationships, Or can you sober up from that quickly and get on with your day in a positive way?
Samantha Naes
Are there any really good leaders that have low EQ?
Art Snarzyk
Well, I see people in leadership positions with low
Samantha Naes
well but in leadership positions and good leaders are two different things.
Art Snarzyk
Listen, I don’t want to get political or choose a side, but .
Samantha Naes
That’s our next conversation.
Art Snarzyk
Of course it is. But I think Donald Trump is a classic example of someone who has very high tenacity, Right? We can say he’s very direct. He’s going to speak what’s on his mind. But I think he’s also missing some of those emotional intelligent things… I haven’t assessed Donald himself but
Samantha Naes
I’d like to see that assessment.
Art Snarzyk
The idea of regulating his own emotions and pausing before he sends out a Twitter is indication of some lower EQ and why he has a hard time bridging gaps with others.
Samantha Naes
Obviously, it could be a real problem if you don’t have great leadership skills, and we’ve had so many of these podcast discussions where we’ve talked about where someone’s an expert at something and then they get promoted to management. But they don’t get management training. How do you know when you’re put in that leadership position… How can you evaluate, how am I doing at this? How do I know if I’m making mistakes and how do you correct
Art Snarzyk
the first thing that hits me is without really getting deep If you just want a quick gut check. If you are trying to get results out of other people and those results are not coming back, there’s something breaking down.
Samantha Naes
How do you know if it’s your leadership If you’ve got the wrong team, or maybe part of leadership is getting the right team?
Teresa Phelps
I think there’s a couple different things going on. when you bring in a new leader, sometimes there is some tension with the existing team because the personalities don’t mush and there’s a period of time where you have to kind of work together to figure out if you can mesh those personalities, and if you can bridge the gap and figure out what works and what doesn’t work. If you’ve got a team that was performing well before the leader comes in and now leader comes in and they’re not performing well, the problem may be with the leader, or it may just be figuring out how you can get the two to work together more cooperatively. And that’s typically what it is, you know. The leader has their own style that they have to figure out and know their team as well.
Samantha Naes
You know what, though, there’s generally more turnover now, so it’s hard to find history of a team when your typical employment life cycle is two years.
Teresa Phelps
I think it depends on the industry. So for my firm, for instance, we have longevity. We do have almost a basically brand new set of employees because most of our other employees have retired, and so I have a relatively new team of people. But I’m still looking at how they’re working together and how the cogs are turning and and you kind of figure things out. So I think it’s the industry specific as to what kind of turnover you have and whether people are leaving or not leaving. I still think yes, people do leave more frequently because jobs are different. People are moving and wanting different things. But I think if you’re doing a good job leading and people are happy where they are and they’re being treated well, I think they’re going to stay and you’re going to see that.
Samantha Naes
Okay, Aren’t any exercises we can do to improve EQ?
Art Snarzyk
Uh, jumping jacks mostly
Samantha Naes
Oh awesome. Okay,
Art Snarzyk
uh, first is to explore. the key, there’s five dimensions of EQ, and the first one’s really explore yourself is self awareness. How am I feeling? And when I first took an EQ assessment, I realized that was one of my lower things. I didn’t understand what I was feeling throughout the day. You could ask me how I was doing, and I would either say it’s either great or terrible. But there wasn’t anything in between. For me, and exercise was to check in more often and say what am I feeling? What caused that?
Samantha Naes
You just ask yourself this?
Art Snarzyk
Yep, And then it’s about how do I regulate that? How long do I want this feeling to affect the rest of my day? Who am I going to effect with this when I get home or to the office, we don’t work for leaders, right? We don’t buy from businesses. We buy from people and we work for people. And if there’s a human connection and you can say, Listen, I know you have goals and I have goals How do we get those goals met together? Then we have two people talking and we take out this leader versus follower.
Samantha Naes
I worked at a bank a long time ago that was going through a buyout, and I don’t know if you’re familiar with situations like that, but it’s not pretty. So I actually took an online course from University of Notre Dame on negotiation, and it really was a great leadership course because the one thing if I summarized the entire course, what I got out of it was, Don’t bring your bad mood with you. Don’t come to the table combative. Think in terms of realistically, what do I need? What’s important to me, what are my fears and what are my concerns, and then ask the other person the same question and instead of saying, well, I want this well, I want that. Say, what are your concerns what are your fears? What are your priorities? And then you list both of them and it’s basically what you were talking about… Your goals and my goals. Figure out what everybody’s goals are and then say OK, let’s work together and figure out how we accomplish all of these goals. And so I guess that really kind of ties into leadership. But that’s really helped me since taking that course
Art Snarzyk
Yeah, nice nugget. I learned in a sales course to sell with questions, and I took that because I was more in management, I took that into managing with questions. So I usually manage with questions, and I even find myself doing it with my daughter. Usually say,
Samantha Naes
How old’s your daughter?
Art Snarzyk
She’s 8. But instead of saying, Here’s what I like you guys to do by two o’clock, it’s here’s what needs to happen by two. It needs to be finished like this. How are we going to do that? You know, how do you think we can accomplish that?
Samantha Naes
That work?
Art Snarzyk
Usually because they have input. There’s no way we can do that by two or we’re gonna need some more help. But now they have some input. Instead of me coming in. Siegel management flying through.
Samantha Naes
I like that.
Art Snarzyk
But here’s what I’d like to see. How do you think we can have it?
Samantha Naes
All right, So does anybody have a horror story?
Art Snarzyk
A sales manager that I used to have? And in a sales meeting, we were going over the numbers. And we, of course, have targets. And we’re supposed to hit those targets. And because the team wasn’t hitting those targets instead of the coaching like, Why didn’t we hit those? Was it because right July, those kinds of things,
Samantha Naes
What’s the issue so we can come up with a solution?
Art Snarzyk
Yeah, it was just a quick look at the watch, saying, Well, based on this, we should be out of business in three weeks and that was not a very inspirational. That was not a leader we want to follow
Samantha Naes
Ah, the fear tactic.
Art Snarzyk
It really caused indifference.
Samantha Naes
Did they meet their goals the next time?
Art Snarzyk
I don’t remember, but I remember the hub bub of afterward, like this guy, you know?
Samantha Naes
Yeah.
Christine Lawrence
Thanks for listening to Super Manager by CN Video Production. Visit our website at CN-Video. com for additional episodes and lots of Super Manager Resources. Or give us a call at 314-VIDEO ME.