SuperManager: Attracting the Right Employees

Christine: You’re listening to super manager, the podcast for people who manage people and business with ideas, trends and expert interviews to help you be a super manager.

Sam: Hey, welcome back to SuperManager Podcast. This week we’re going to be talking about attracting the right employees and I’ve got my super friend:

Art: I’m Art Snarzyk with Interview Advisors and I help businesses attract and hire and manage ideal people. I use assessment tools to help predict who’s going to work out long term with other people. And usually in hiring or in team building, how do we work best together, but overall I bridge the gap between the people in business

Sam: And I’m Samantha Naes with CN Video, we do corporate video production, onboarding, training, all those wonderful video tools for hiring and building up the team. I was talking with someone and they were telling me a little bit about company culture, different work environments, and they talked about a business that on Fridays, Friday afternoon at three o’clock they’d pull out the beer and everybody would stop working and have a beer. You’re thinking, wow, that’s a cool work environment. Well, there was actually an employee that worked there that was very unhappy. As a result of that, he felt that that was inappropriate. He didn’t want to sit around and drink beer. He wasn’t a beer drinker and it made him feel left out of the organization because this is what everyone else did and it wasn’t what he wanted he to do. And it wasn’t that there was anything wrong with this employee and it wasn’t that there was anything wrong with this environment. It just wasn’t a good fit. This was the wrong person for this company culture and vice versa. And I know that can be really, really, really important. If you want employees that are doing a good job, they’ve got to feel like they’re a part of the company culture, they’ve got to be a good fit. And thankfully we have Art here who’s kind of an expert on finding the right fit, should be able to get a lot of interesting conversation.

Art: I hope so. Thanks, Sam. I encourage people to really think about the do and the who of hiring. Can they do the work? And it sounds like this gentleman could, but in the who are they who we like to have here or are they going to fit our culture and it’s super important.

Sam: To me, I almost feel like it’s as important if not more important. I know when we look for people for video production, there are people who can use editing software and there are people that can use cameras, but if they don’t have the right attitude, if they don’t enjoy working with the customers, if they don’t like this type of work environment, then it’s just not going to be a good fit. I feel it’s every bit as important if not more.

Art: Sure. Just like your video productions and editing and the things that you do. All businesses have their own niche, so let’s say it’s insurance agents. The State Farm agent in this city is going to be slightly different than the office down the road just because they’re different people in different cultures.

Sam: Right, and you were talking about job ads versus job descriptions. What is the difference between the two and how does that make a difference when you’re trying to find the right employee?

Art: Yeah, I think it’s really the key issue that I see with most of my clients and businesses is they confuse the two and they’re easily confused. But a job description is a list of the details of what needs to be done. I’m going to describe how you do your work and when that’s due by and a job ad is really a job advertisement, so it’s really to take your job description and to twist that into advertising words because we’re advertising for a person to take a specific action just like Walmart would when they say we have something on sale, but we need to tell the story of why someone should take that action. And a job description isn’t enough. Telling someone here’s the work you’re going to do for 10 bucks an hour and this many hours a week is not enough these days. I think we need to tell more about here’s what we believe in and here’s why we love our clients and here’s what you’re going to enjoy here.

Sam: Oh I see. And so does that get combined into one document that you publish online when you’re looking to hire someone or are they separate pieces? How does that work?

Art: Both. They are separate pieces and then I would summarize some of the job description because the job description’s just too boring to read online and most people are not reading that much.

Sam: So you’re saying what should be more publicly visible is the job ad with a little bit of description, not the other way around.

Art: That’s it. We need to describe the job itself so people have a good idea of what do you mean by sales? Do you mean a hunter or do you mean a relationship builder or do you mean somebody who just does Internet sales? Those are very different things, so having that clarity in your job ad will allow the right people to raise their hands and others say, you know, I can do that kind of work, that’s just not my favorite kind.

Sam: That’s interesting. We had a story in a previous podcast where there was a misunderstanding about what sales meant. Somebody just ended up not being a good fit for the company culture because of that misunderstanding. And do you find most companies put together a job ad? It seems like a job description would be more the department manager would put that together or the person who’s responsible for the position. The job ad, is that something that manager can do or is that something the marketing department should do or how do you put together a job ad?

Art: Yeah, I think you just ask yourself the right questions. Whether you want your marketing company to help or a consultant, or you do it on your own as a manager, you just need to ask yourself the right questions. What is going to be compelling to this person? Why would someone want to apply in this position? There are many places where you can take a sales position, but if you don’t like this kind of environment, if you don’t like beers on Fridays, right. I would add that into a job ad so that either the people who think that’s a cool culture will apply, and the ones who didn’t know that was part of it would say that’s just not my style. I won’t apply. And it would save that company of hiring, training and then losing this really good worker.

Sam: That is a huge problem when it comes to not finding the right fit. As a business owner, I know the expense involved, the time it takes to hire the person and the onboarding and the training and getting them up to speed and it’s just,

Art: I’ve seen you really get good at it, Sam.

Sam: Thanks.

Art: You’re welcome.

Sam: Thanks to you.

Art: Well we work together, but I think that it’s important everybody knows this mindset when hiring and three things I look at when hiring is clarity first and then attraction and then selection. So first we need to get really clear and then we need to go attract the right people with a great job ad posted in the right places or the people you like are going to go hang out. It’s marketing folks.

Sam: So when you say clarity, you mean not just in your job ad or your job description? You mean the person who’s doing the hiring, really understanding what it is that they want.

Art: That’s it. Here’s clarity about the job. We know that they’re going to have to do this with videos and edit them. Now let’s get a little bit clearer about the kinds of people we want to have apply and skillsets and do they have to be really good with time management or is that negotiable? Right, but is empathy important for you? So as you get really clear about all these different traits of a person, then you can say, well now we know what to evaluate that person against.

Sam: It sounds like now we’re getting into marketing. How do you know then how to attract that person? I know one of the things that we do is the company culture scouting videos are getting really important where you kind of go into a little bit of mission, vision, values, interviews with current employees. What I like about working here so that the person thinking about applying can see this is what the culture looks like. You know, if they’re talking about, hey, we love the fact that we have beer on Fridays and take long lunches and that’s not what you’re looking for, then that can be a good fit, but how, what are some other ways that you can, once you know exactly what you’re looking for, how do you attract them? I mean for me it’s just, okay, I’ve got a job description and now I know it also needs to be a job ad.

Art: That’s it.

Sam: And I post on indeed.

Art: Mmhm.

Sam: Is it just what I put in that job ad that attracts them, or-

Art: It is, but call them out. There have been times where I will say we need someone who’s tenacious and unstoppable and fearless and doesn’t mind change. Well, that’s very different than somebody who loves a routine and accuracy and loves to adhere to our processes. So you put those words in there and you kind of help clarify for the applicant, what are they getting into or should they raise their hand or not.

Sam: Do you find though that it really makes a difference? I found that I can put in a job description, very specifics that I’m looking for. You can just tell when you’re talking with the person that they would not be comfortable with that, that they don’t have those characteristics and so I’ll bring it up. We were looking for and they go, “Oh yeah, that’s me. Absolutely I can do that.” Do you find that it really helps to bring in the right person in spite of the fact that people may just want to get the job regardless of whether they feel it’s going to be a good fit for them or not?

Art: You’re doing a great job because you have that clarity up front. You know what you’re looking for. The clarity is what really makes it great because now you know what to ask and know what to look for during those interviews or while you’re screening resumes and you can pull that apart and say, wow, that person did video production, but they did it in an environment at weddings on a Saturday night.

Sam: Sports or, yeah.

Art: Very much different than what you do, but you know, listing those out, the clarity not only helps them, but you asked the question, do I think it helps? I think there’s lots of people that apply to lots of jobs whether they’re qualified or not.

New Speaker: Right.

New Speaker: And that’s frustrating sometimes, but the clarity will help you as well.

Sam: Oh, I see. So it’s not just about attracting the right employee, it’s also about identifying and recognizing whether they’re it or not. When you’re talking with them, interviewing.

Art: In the selection, if you’re really clear about what you need, you go to that selection piece and you say, all right, we said we needed somebody that has excellent customer focus abilities. We’re going to ask three or four questions about that. If we thought that this other thing was more important, like analytical problem solving, if that was super important for the role. Now we can ask two or three questions, but you have to get clear about what’s important upfront.

Sam: What do you think attracts the right employee. What are employees looking for?

Art: I think that many employees are first looking for just gainful employment, right?

Sam: Which is part of the problem because you’ve got a job opening. Hey, that’s perfect. It’s a job.

Art: And I often say that interview is the worst place to make a hiring decision because both people come to the table with expectations and anticipations. And as an applicant, I might tell you, you know a little bit more than I should or embellish a little bit because I need the job. And I often see business owners who oversell the position, talk them into wanting the job. So I think interviews are great and you need to do them. They’re a piece of this puzzle we’re trying to put together really quickly before we make a hiring decision.

Sam: If you’re not making a decision at the interview, then when?

Art: I think after the interview and then after you get back to your desk and you’re clear about what you were looking for during that interview with a sober mind and without that person in front of you, say, does that feel right? And bring out their resume and then bring out their cover letter or any follow-up that they did. These are all pieces of that puzzle. Hopefully you’re using a background check and an assessment that will help predict those cool things about people, but all those things are pieces, the reference checks, and when you have the whole piece in front of you, then you can make a good decision.

Sam: Olivia, I didn’t do a background check before hiring you.

Olivia: Guess you’ll never know.

Sam: Earlier you were talking about clarity. One of the bullet points that I was going to talk about was knowing your mission, vision, values, and culture, and I think that’s essentially what you meant about clarity. You have to know what your company’s mission is, what the vision is, what the company values are, and you have to be able to express that to someone else realistically.

New Speaker: Right.

Sam: Not idealistically, but realistically to potential employees so that they come in with the right expectations and-

Art: Absolutely. I think explaining your culture and what you believe in really can attract the right people. When you’re very clear about who you’re looking for, it helps other people find those people for you. Unemployment rate is low right now and a lot of candidates that are out there, there might be a good reason for that.

Sam: No offense to anyone who’s currently unemployed.

Art: True. True. There are many that are unemployable and there are some that are still good and just we need to find those diamonds.

Sam: There are probably a lot of people that are a really good fit for somebody else, but they’re in the wrong organization.

Art: And that’s where I think we need other people to help us find those people because there are people that are sitting at work right now thinking, “I wish I had something better”, but they’re not, they’re not applying to things. So if we can have other people identify that for us, then they will help us.

Sam: That’s really sad too because if somebody is sitting at their job thinking, I wish I had something better, how big of a team player can that person be if they really wish they were somewhere else. Yeah, they’re going to have less impact. Right. And less passion. Those are hard things to quantify, but it’s your bottom line somewhere. I just don’t know how to find it.

Sam: I’ve gotten to where when I interview people, we do internships in the summer and so I do a lot of, a lot more interviewing than I have employees. I ask questions and I think I got some of these from you. I’ll say, you know “Well you’re getting ready to start your career. What are you looking for in a career? What are you looking to avoid in your career?” And I think you gave me this one as well. “What are you looking for in a supervisor? What are you trying to avoid in a supervisor?” And I spend a lot more time getting them to tell me what they’re looking for rather than describing what we offer.

Art: Excellent.

Sam: It’s asking “What are you looking for? What’s ideal? What do you not like, what are your fears?” And I found that not only am I getting more information, but I’m actually coming across a much nicer person. It appears to them that I’m more concerned about their wellbeing, which of course I am, but my ulterior motive is if you’re not going to be happy here, if you’re not a good fit, you’re not going to be as productive.

Art: Yeah. It’s really important, I think if you are looking at the right people, you’re almost in a detective mode, so when should you make that decision? Not during the interview, not during resume review. When I have all the pieces of the case file in front of me and I can be the detective and say, what’s the likely outcome? If we don’t have all those pieces, then it might be a little bit like, well, I’m just trusting that one eye witness but not the video cameras. And I think you need a bunch of pieces and you’re doing great by getting more of the right pieces during your interviews.

Sam: We were talking a little bit earlier before the podcast started about millennials and Olivia was pointing out, that’s kind of an umbrella term so that even the Gen Z that’s entering the workforce now, are kind of under the millennial umbrella, you had some strategies for attracting millennials because they’re the group that are entering the workforce right now.

Art: Sure. And at a large pace, and as the baby boomers leave the workforce-

Sam: Right.

Art: Those are our managers. Those are our coworkers. Those are our – hey how about this – those are our clients. Some of the things that are stereotypically said about millennials, there’s usually a better reason for it. And if we could understand that reason, we can create a workplace that attracts them. We always hear that they need a pat on the back. They need a lot of Kudos and trophies, and it’s not that they need a lot of trophies, they just need a lot of feedback. That’s how they grew up, was getting feedback from their parents constantly or posting something online and getting everybody in the school’s feedback. So it’s not that they need trophies, they’re asking, “How am I doing mom?”

Sam: Right.

Art: That’s what they’re asking us, so if we can do those things, like, add that into your job ad for clarity and say we do routine check-ins to make sure you’re enjoying your progress. I think there’s a lot of millennials that would enjoy that. One thing I would do is, listen, the younger generations don’t work for 60 years and get the gold watch. They’re just not going to retire with you.

Sam: Right, right.

Art: If you hire somebody at two years nowadays, that’s, that’s a good clip. Get that around your head that we’re almost training companies now. If you can get someone that, really effective 0 to 70% effective in the first couple of months and just know that you’re going to have a great person for a number of more months, but it’s not going to be 10 years, if that’s okay. I would say advertise that as well. Say you can stay here for three years or 30 it’s up to you, but don’t make the millennials feel trapped because they are probably going to want to go anyway.

Sam: I think a lot of us are still in the mindset. We want someone who’s going to be here forever and ever and ever and, yeah.

Art: Yeah. Just fewer of those people out there.

Sam: We’ve come to that time in the podcast where we have our Office Horror Story. Do you have any horror stories for us that have to do with the not-so-right employee?

Art: I’ve got a number of them.

Sam: I bet you do.

Art: But one during an interview- I like it when they disqualify themselves this easily- I was young and I didn’t know how to interview, but interviewing this guy that must’ve been in his thirties, forties and I was asking him the right questions as I had learned them and then I asked him, “what are you passionate about?” Without blinking he looked, “Women. I’m very passionate about women.” And I said, that’s, that’s great. And I just had to go back to my desk, but that was the end of that. We still chatted a little bit, but I didn’t hire him.

Christine: Thanks for listening to SuperManager by CN Video Production. Visit our website cn-video.com for additional episodes and lots of SuperManager resources, or give us a call at 314-VIDEO-ME.