Super Manager Podcast – Emotional Aspects of Presenteeism and a Cry Room
Have you ever had an employee have a meltdown at work? Presenteeism is defined as the problem of employees who are not fully functioning in the workplace because of an illness, injury or other condition. It is a growing problem that is costing employers billions of dollars. Listen in as we discuss possible solutions for presenteeism in the workplace.
“Find out, by being a fly on the wall in this podcast discussion with:”
Samantha Naes – CN Video Production (http://cn-video.com)
Victoria Wors – Wors Consulting
Mary Kutheis – https://www.mckcoaching.com/
Joel Emery – https://ignitestrategiesmidwest.com/
Kim Baker – https://www.vividperformancegroup.com/
Maggie Peterson – https://c6solutionsllc.com/
Christine Lawrence
You’re listening to Super Manager, The podcast for people who manage people and business. With ideas, trends and expert interviews to help you be a Super Manager.
Samantha Naes
We were doing a podcast gosh it was a while ago. It was on reducing stress in the workplace, and we’re talking about stress and how it could be a real distraction. And I think it was Terra Gregor brought up presenteeism, and I had not heard of that before and she said, Well, as opposed to absenteeism, where the person is not there at all with presenteeism you’re physically there, but you’re not mentally or emotionally there. And I thought, that’s a great term. That happens often. And she was talking about how expensive that is for businesses where employees are present, but not. So, this week’s topic, and ironically, without Terra being here is gonna be on presenteeism and I have got my team of super friends with me. Today. We have.
Victoria Wors
Vicky Wors, Wors Consulting. Human resources support for small, to mid sized businesses.
Joel Emery
Joel Emery with Ignites Strategies. I served as a sale systems architect for small and mid sized businesses.
Kim Baker
Kim Baker, with The Performance Group. Organizations hire us help them align and synergize their human capital culture and organizational agility.
Maggie Peterson
And Maggie Peterson with C6 Solutions. I work with human resource organizations on copy and content marketing.
Samantha Naes
And I am Samantha Naes with CN Video. We do corporate video production.
Victoria Wors
Presenteeism, just you’ve heard the term face time that people need to go into work just to be seen. Just go into the boss knows you’re there and you get your hours in. You’re really not wanting to be there. But, you know, if I don’t do this kind of politically correct that I need to have face time.
Samantha Naes
Look busy.
Victoria Wors
Right. Have you ever done face time?
Joel Emery
Of couse. Who hasn’t.
Samantha Naes
We were talking earlier about doing that at networking events. Where people in business go to networking events and you show up for the event. But you’re on your cell phone the whole time, and you’re not really
Maggie Peterson
You’re not really present at the event. So are you really gaining anything from being there?
Victoria Wors
Well, some of that could very well be a way to Okay, I’m here. I really don’t want to be here. I don’t want to talk to people, and they’re hoping somebody will come up and interrupt them and maybe start talking to them. It’s a way of hiding.
Samantha Naes
Oh, more of a nervousness?
Victoria Wors
Yeah, it’s way of hiding.
Joel Emery
It’s an avoidance mechanism.
Samantha Naes
I see it is more of kind of a stress or an overwhelming thing. Like you’ve got too many things to do. And so, I find if I’m having a conversation with someone and they seem to be just going uh huh. Yeah. They’re not really there. It’s because they have other things on their mind or they’re stressed out about something. Or, there’s some reason why they can’t seem to focus on the here and now and what’s happening right in front of them.
Victoria Wors
Well, presenteeism, I think it’s just a symptom of a lot of things that people are not happy in their work. They’re there because they need their job, but they’re just there and they’re not being challenged. We have to have a better, much better approach to hiring people, placement, because when we’re forcing people into jobs, you really have no interest in or it’s a situation where people they have personal things that are going on, that’s all their minds are on.
Samantha Naes
I think that’s more it than anything else.
Maggie Peterson
I think, take a different approach to this. But in looking up in preparing for this. I’m seeing presenteeism is more related to being at work when you’re sick.
Kim Baker
Exactly.
Maggie Peterson
It can be the cold or flu since we’re in that season. But it can also be depression, allergies and that the disengagement, for other reasons, is something different than presenteeism. Presenteeism is at being work sick when you really should stay home.
Samantha Naes
And sick, If it’s emotional or allergies or something like that, that’s one thing. But first of all, if you’re sick with a cold or the flu, just stay home for so many reasons. If you’re not gonna be present, if you’re not gonna accomplish what you need to accomplish and you’re just gonna get everybody else sick, then by all means don’t come into the office.
Maggie Peterson
That cannot be very difficult as well.
Joel Emery
There’s some workplaces where you can’t win either way. If you don’t go in when you’re sick, then well, he’s sick all the time,
Joel Emery
I’m sure he’s not really sick. I have a cold night coming no matter what you got, huh? But that if you do, come in and you’re hacking and coffin, why is he here? You shouldn’t be here where you got the young single
Victoria Wors
He’s such a wuss.
Joel Emery
I’m sure he’s not really sick. have a cold night coming no matter what you got, huh? But that if you do, come in and you’re hacking and coffin, why is he here? You shouldn’t be here
Joel Emery
Or you got the young single parents who work an hour early job and they’re desperate for the money. They don’t feel that they can afford to take the day off to heal their body because they’ve gotta put food on the table.
Samantha Naes
Not necessarily take the day off. But if you have some kind of work from home program I mean, we have laptops here. And if somebody is coughing and sneezing, I’m like, Oh, can you do what you need to do, you know, at home from the laptop? Do you need to come in here?
Joel Emery
But some of that’s office environment. But then there’s also, say, the person who works as the cashier PetSmart. That’s not an option for them.
Samantha Naes
And that’s even worse because think of all the people that you know that you’re getting sick.
Kim Baker
So it’s interesting because when you look at this, you know, how do you define Presenteeism? Well, I think we really have. It really is working when you’re sick or you don’t feel well. Well, what causes that? So it could be your environment. You know, the culture. It could be the type of work you do. Health care workers, teachers, known to work when they’re ill. Because is there a sub for me for a physician? If I cancel and don’t come in today, now they’ve gotta cancel the patients. That’s an impact to the patients. And then we say, Well, what’s the impact of this? a lot of it’s productivity. You know, the data tells us presenteeism is actually more costly to an organization than absenteeism
Samantha Naes
Yeah, that’s what Tara was saying.
Kim Baker
You know, like depression. You know, it’s amazing the data on depression. And I think we wouldn’t necessarily know that unless we started looking at the data. So then we say, How do we fix this and part of it… It’s really fascinating when you look at the health care cost associated with presenteeism versus not. Employers actually spend more money for diseases related to presenteeism, like allergies and my brain’s depression, right? All that than they do on actually sick care for people who stay home.
Victoria Wors
So what? What are we talking about trying to really utilize the employee assistance programs. I do. Human resource is consulting, and I walk into various organizations, and an employee may have an issue, and I will suggest. Have you tried your employee assistance program? What’s that? It’s something an employer pays for in their benefits package, yet they don’t really let the employees know it’s there for them.
Maggie Peterson
It’s not promoted the employees don’t know there’s a resource available to help them.
Victoria Wors
And actually the employers. It’s something they pay for, and they don’t really understand it. No about it. And they don’t utilize it.
Maggie Peterson
And sometimes for some of these issues and depression is a classic example. There’s still a stigma associated with it. If you said you are depressed. Fighting depression, what do other people think?
Samantha Naes
Now, I can attest to the fact that the employee assistance program actually works. When I went through a divorce several years ago and this was 20 years ago, it was particularly rough and shocking. Something that just happened one day, and I went into work and I talked to my supervisor and I said, Listen, I just I can’t concentrate on work. I can’t focus. I’m not getting anything done. Here’s what’s happened. I just I need to take a little time off. To which she responded. That’s your personal life. This is your job. Suck it up. You know, get back to your desk and get your job done. And you worry about that when you get home when we’re not paying for your time. And that’s what I had to do. And it was very, you know, I just couldn’t. It’s not like someone can tell you to stop being stressed about being human, right and and focus on your work. And so I couldn’t. And then, actually, someone did provide me with a brochure on the Employee Assistance Program and actually used to the program and got back on track and managed to get through it that way. So that was extremely helpful. And I remember during that period it wasn’t just work. I was locking myself out of my apartment. I was locking my keys in my car. I even set a coffee cup on top of my car and drove away with, you know, things you don’t normally do. You’re just not there.
Victoria Wors
Well, when my husband died, I I should have used the employee assistance program. Just going through things. And they knew, of course, that I had lost my husband and they dealt with me, but no one said anything. We haven’t Employee Assistance Program. I just sat there and trying to do my work with tears in my eyes, and everybody just gave me a wide berth.
Maggie Peterson
So, here’s a question. I mean, we’re going into winter. You’ve got seasonal affective disorder when we know more people struggles. Depression, right? We’re going into the holiday season when we know that people are going to be more stressed. How did you recognize when people around you have something like that going on.
Samantha Naes
You know, why I kind of chuckle when you say that, because clearly. It’s not a funny question. But I feel like it’s presenteeism. If people around you, are in the moment and with you and aware of what’s going on, they’ll notice it. But the problem is, if everybody’s going through their own personal stress and you can have a room full of people sitting and talking to each other, with none of them really present, really noticing what’s going on with other people and really listening and paying attention.
Kim Baker
And part of it too, is I mean, this is when emotional intelligence comes in. I mean, higher, emotional, intelligent people are going to pick up on that more if people know you and they start to notice that you’re not acting maybe the way you did in the past. You know, I think when you look at this long term. So millennials are now known as the therapy generation. One of our very large employers in town when they built out their new offices and Chesterfield have a cry room. Okay, so we’re being much more comfortable.
Samantha Naes
That’s interesting.
Kim Baker
Yeah. Isn’t that? The Wall Street This Weekend, talked about how anxiety now can be a social influencer. People being very vulnerable. So what we see now is more and more, especially the millennials. And I don’t know, we’re gonna see this in Gen Z, but people talking about I’m depressed. I feel anxious. So it’s losing its stigma, actually, because it actually almost has a little cachet to it. But when you look at the data, the rates of depression are up. When you look at the rates of suicide in teens. And if that doesn’t stop, what I foresee is we’re going to have more and more depressed people in a work force. You know, the other part of presenteeism, is that there’s certain personality types that are more prone to this. Looking at the workaholics, you know, there’s a direct link.
Samantha Naes
I want to go back to this cry room.
Kim Baker
Yeah, yeah.
Samantha Naes
So, is this just like a private a bathroom or, is it a private office?
Kim Baker
So, the way I know about this is, that my boyfriend is in Tech and his client was the CTO of this company and said, Yep, time for me to retire. There’s a cry room.
Victoria Wors
Well, I will tell you, it might
Joel Emery
It it actually called that, or is it called something else?
Kim Baker
My guess is that it has a nicer name but, it’s functional. So my understanding is kind of functionally it’s the cry room. So, I’m sure it’s aroom to destress, you know? And maybe mindfulness room.
Samantha Naes
Oh, I like that mindfulness room. So what is it like? Tissues on a comfortable place to sit in meditation, tape, meditation?
Victoria Wors
A sink to put cold water on your face.
Victoria Wors
I don’t know. Probably, I would think maybe some nice. So think like if you’re in a spa, probably some soft music, soft lighting. But I don’t know.
Samantha Naes
Oh, I would just hang out there.
Kim Baker
Yeah, I mean, the other extreme is like It’s rubber room or something.
Joel Emery
I have a child on the autism spectrum, and I know he needs sometimes places to go that provide some sort of sensory respite points in time to sort of reset and get back to what ever he needs to do. But That’s a slightly different context.
Samantha Naes
I’m curious about. Has it helped? Because you kind of gave some statistics about and I know it’s not just cost to the company. Obviously, it’s very expensive to have employee sitting in the seats you’re paying them. They’re not getting things done. They’re unable to concentrate. Things go wrong, but we talked about also in networking. You know, you lose connections. There’s just so much that you lose through not being present in the moment, not being focused on what you’re doing. Do these rooms help?
Kim Baker
Oh, that I have no idea. So these are just part of the whole. The larger topic of well being caring for the psycho, social, emotional and physical needs of an employee, right? So, we’ve taken what was the healthcare focus, and now we’re looking at the individual holistically, and that’s one aspect of it.
Joel Emery
So we’re kind of talking about present theism from two different angles. Both in terms of whether, when somebody’s president are they engaged in their work? But then also, like, should they even be there as opposed to have called in sick? So they’re two different things. I’m not really sure which.
Samantha Naes
I think they’re kind of similar, though, because it’s just to varying degrees. There is. I’m not really here. I’m not really focused. I’m not really paying attention, which is a bad thing. And It’s better to have no one doing this, then you know, me at the wheel.
Victoria Wors
Well, but you’ve also got another facet to this is okay. If you’re not plugged in and you’ve got work that’s being presented to you. What is the quality of that work? What is up happening? Customers as somebody lost when someone was just so unplug that they couldn’t respond to them. Yet the employer said you need to manage this, you need to suck it up and manage it. Will either somebody doesn’t respond? As they are supposed to with a client? Or maybe they go off on them, that they’ve got their button pushed. So, there’s many, many aspects of your presenteeism. That having a cry room if you recognize it, all employees know it’s there. The boss says, Hey, before you engage with a client directly or dealing with something that is critical to the company’s business, if you’re not feeling plugged in, here’s a couple of things you need to do and maybe visit the cry room.
Samantha Naes
Meditation, I think can really help. I know sometimes when I’m feeling frazzled because I’ve got too many things on my mind and I can’t focus. You stop. You do meditation for a few minutes, and then you could be much more productive. And you definitely make up that seven minutes that you doing meditation in productivity after the fact. And I think this is gonna become a really big problem. I mean, I’m seeing it already everywhere I go, and I think the problem’s just getting bigger.
Christine Lawrence
Thanks for listening to super manager by CN Video Production. Visit our website at CN desh video dot com for additional episodes and lots of Super Manager Resource is or give us a call at 314 Video Me.